Episode 33: Dale Harris & Seth Caldwell
Dale Harris: You know, I can glorify it in lots of different ways. I had a successful sales career and a successful growing business, whatever. But it's one chance to travel to Asia and see interesting things. And I kind of thought it would be the only chance. Except I accidentally won this competition.
Josh Caldwell: Atypical daydreamers, welcome to the show. Today I have two stories that truly capture the magic of surprises that come with traveling in far-flung places. My first story comes from Dale Harris, the 2017 World Barista Champion. Winning a world competition is one thing, riding the wave that follows is another. Dale takes us behind the scenes of his multi-year journey as a coffee famous champion on the go.
Dale Harris: I grew up in a small town in the UK. It was a nice little place, but I wanted to escape it. It was like a little village with a family firm and everyone ends up working there. My granddad worked there, my dad worked there, my twin brother ended up working there for 20 years. I wanted to escape as quickly as I could. Various situations took me to coffee, to this passion that I had. I worked in a few different jobs beforehand, but I found this space that I loved. But within coffee, we have these events every year. We have a World Barista Championship, which is fed into with national competitions. That became a dream or a goal. I competed in my national competition for around 10 years, and then I won the worlds.
The great thing about the world championship is it'll be in an exciting city with the whole community. I kind of thought this was going to be my one moment to really experience another world. There was a year that the worlds were in Bogota, Colombia. I thought maybe I'll get that one. It didn't quite happen. But eventually the year I won in 2017, the world championships were in Seoul, Korea. So it was literally flying to the other side of the world, being in a culture that's completely different. However, it was a week's trip where I was mostly at a trade show. So I wasn't really experiencing Korea until the very last day. But it did feel like this incredible opportunity for someone who worked in a coffee shop. And I kind of thought it would be the only chance.
Except I accidentally won this competition.
Dale Harris: It's a strange thing because you're not really a celebrity, you're not really famous, but within the coffee industry you are for a short time. For the three or four years after winning that competition, I had so many opportunities to travel and go to interesting places and meet interesting people. Except I also had a job. So the scheduling was a nightmare. And I had a family, I have kids. So juggling those things was really difficult. Every month I would definitely be in two continents, probably in three or four cities, having great experiences. I enjoyed it as much as I possibly could. But the back-to-back nature meant that I was often missing the places that I was in.
One of the countries with the most interest for coffee and for business is China. It's this huge country, this growing middle class, huge quantity of cities that from the Western or European perspective, you know, we know Shanghai, we know Beijing, we know names of a few cities. But the scale of China is so vast. The scale of the population, the scale of just the cities. One of the great fun things about a market like China is that coffee hasn't really existed before as something that people drink. It's a new generation, a new place to be outside. And a lot of the rules or the ways of doing things that we've picked up through 150 years of cafe culture in the West, in the US, in Australia, they get to choose which of those rules they choose and which ones they don't. It's a really fun environment to be working in.
So I began this project with this company, and we had a couple of trips to Shanghai. On those first few trips we were only eating chain Italian food. And I was like, is this, you know, you're showing off to me. On the last day, my handler, the marketing manager who I'm now very good friends with, we built up enough relationship that I could kind of ask the question. So why am I eating pasta in China? And she said, I just didn't think your little Western stomach would be able to cope with the food. And I really needed you to work tomorrow. So I only got to taste some great Chinese food on the last day.
Dale Harris: But I'd been working with them for nine months, a year. And they had a big rollout of stores. They scheduled this trip on the back of another trip. So I ended up in China with another project. They pick me up from Chengdu and they're like, okay, so you've got five days. We've got five days together. We are gonna make the most of them. So we're gonna do seven cities in five days. There were multiple flights every day, very kind of short haul, but we were gonna conquer this country.
And everything became a blur. We did Shanghai, we did Beijing. I was in Beijing for hours. I was in Shanghai for hours. We flew to a city that at the time I'd never heard of. They were like, this is the Chicago of China. And I'm like, okay. How many people live here? Twenty-seven million. I was like, that's a country. That was Wuhan, you know, globally famous for other reasons. It was a fun trip. I spent lots of time with small teams. When you're on that kind of schedule, you bond pretty fast. By the end of the trip, within ten minutes of meeting people you're making friends for life, and then you're gone from their lives forever three hours later.
I have this lasting memory and I don't know where I was. I remember it being on our way to a tech city, I think the home of Alibaba. On our way there, which was on a high speed train, we stopped for our lunch in a traditional tea house by a lake.
Dale Harris: I could not tell you where this is. I couldn't if you gave me a map of China point in the right direction. But in the middle of the countryside, it's a beautiful grey day and we're looking out across a lake which from where we're standing you're looking across and there's no end to it. Beautiful watercolor greys and blues, birds flying. Old ladies resting there. And this is a traditional place for dim sum and we have the most beautiful, tranquil one hour of rest.
I am likely to never go back there, to never find this place again. I could ask the question, right? I know enough people that I could find out where that place was and bring other people to it, but I love this kind of island of serenity that happened in the middle of, I swear, a hundred miles, all of which could have been anywhere in the world. Hotels and airplanes and they could have been anywhere in the world.
The only other standout thing I can remember: a delayed flight one night, waiting in an airport that is brand new, huge, at least at the level of the second city in the UK's airport. Really grand scale, no one in it. Loads of beautiful restaurants, no staff. Kind of wandering around. There were probably a thousand people in a place made for twenty thousand people. The only food option was a McDonald's. And the joy of finding that the McDonald's chicken burger there was made with thigh meat rather than breast and was just so incredibly delicious with a hot sauce. I am all about quality food. That was quality food in the least expected situation.
Josh Caldwell: Hey, it's Josh. Hope you're enjoying the podcast. And if so, are you wanting more road stories? Well, good news. I've got you covered. Consider becoming a patron. You'll have access to loads of great bonus stories that there just wasn't time for. And you'll be supporting a truly independent podcast. Find the link in the show notes and thanks. Now back to the show.
My next guest is Seth Caldwell. And yes, we're related. He's my nephew. Seth spent many years traveling the world by motorbike, van, bus, train, and plane. In today's story, we find him in Southeast Asia, a young man traveling by instinct and inspiration.
Seth Caldwell: By the end of the night, we'd always end up kind of close to the bay where there's this vendor who sold ice cream mixed with jellies. You know, you just every night go there because it's so cheap. Why not? End the night on an ice cream. But one night I went out there and ran into this woman. Back then I was a little more courageous and wanted to sit down and say, hey, what's up, what's your name? So I did. Just sat down next to her and it turns out she's German. Got to talking. One thing led to another and I just said, hey, let's go someplace, let's hang out. I'd seen her earlier that day and then found her again. It's not a big island. I knew about this place on the island that was like an abandoned beach. So I said, let's go there. She had her own motorcycle and I was like, yeah, this is the stuff. Let's do this.
I was already thinking about leaving the island at that time, it was just time to go and do something different. She kind of convinced me to check out this spot where it was at one point like a resort but had basically been abandoned. Just a big concrete building with nobody in it. Huge beach, probably five hundred feet long and a hundred feet wide. Nobody there any time. So we went there and just got to talking and a couple other people joined us. That was a really fun night because that's the night when I learned that the water has phytoplankton in it. Where they light up.
Seth Caldwell: We just went out and swam in the water and started glowing. I was like, wow, this is amazing. This is almost like another planet.
One of these wonderful unexpected experiences where you have no idea something is gonna happen. From there, she wanted to leave pretty soon. I wasn't quite ready. Got her number and WhatsApp and did all that whole thing. And she went on and kept traveling. But it sat in the back of my mind for a few days and I was like, I really should just go see that through and go hang out with her. I don't know what I'm still doing on this island. I'd been there for many months, it was time to leave.
So I did. And at that point she had already gone quite a distance, pretty much most of the way to Cambodia, which from the top of northeastern Vietnam is quite a ways, especially on these motorbikes which are not super fast. So I said, yeah, let's meet up somewhere.
The whole time you're learning a lot about the history of this place and how it's really been kind of destroyed by our own actions in the Vietnam War. And the people are so beautiful and genuinely very warm and inviting and hospitable. And then you're just seeing all the kind of mess that we made there. I remember hiking out in Cambodia and learning how much unexploded ordnance there is everywhere. You'll talk to someone and they'll know someone who's been killed or maimed in an accident just out and about in normal life because they hit a landmine. It's just insane to think about. We've left such an impact that people just know someone who didn't make it through normal life because we left landmines there.
Seth Caldwell: I end up meeting up with her and one night in particular, she was really zoned in for Wiener Schnitzel. Which yeah, I guess you do if you're German. I don't know. I've never had that particular craving, but it's like sure, let's do it. Let's figure something out. Looked it up and said, okay, actually there's a place on the other side of town. Which is, you know, it's Cambodia. I don't know if they have Wiener Schnitzel. I don't even know what it is exactly, but let's go find it.
It was like probably eight or nine PM and we show up there. First sign if you're traveling that it's not the right time to be there: they're about to close shop. Probably a German or Austrian expat running this place. They're about to close. We order the Wiener Schnitzel. It's pretty good. It's a nice dish. I'm gonna eat it again. Not at that spot though, because the next day definitely had the worst food sickness of my life. Just in hellish pain and agony for a good three days.
She had to leave in a few days' time as well. So it's kind of the end of our journey and we really wanted to see Angkor Wat. Yeah, it's just not very recommended if you have food sickness to go out to that place. It's quite a journey to get there and it's just super hot. Everything is so amazing to look at and learn about. But I definitely had the terrible shits. Multiple occasions I just had to stop, find the closest thing to a bathroom, and try to keep going.
Seth Caldwell: I just thought it was really interesting how I'd traveled so much and eaten some crazy things. I'm talking like chicken legs, scorpions. I remember stopping someplace and ordering something and then looking over and seeing a pile of dishes that were just moldy and had flies everywhere. Just nuts things that you definitely should have had something terribly wrong with your stomach at least three times by now. And then yeah, the one time we just ate at a Westerner restaurant. That's the place.
Josh Caldwell: I want to thank Dale and Seth for sharing their experiences. Do you want to hear more stories from these two fellas? Head over to my Patreon. Dale shares a wild story about getting stuck in Lima, Peru, and Seth recounts a near-death experience. Also, be sure to follow Dale on his Instagram to see all his upcoming adventures in 2025. This podcast is created and produced by me, Josh Caldwell. Music by Visual Aid, my side music project. General support and copywriting by Miranda Caldwell. And if you know someone who you think might enjoy this show, send them this episode. The support really helps. Thank you for listening, and I hope you come back next time.
