Episode 39: Seth Shelden & Caitlin Krisko

Seth Shelden: The next morning the other guy comes over who's a soldier. They don't know each other too well, it seems to me, but the other guy brings vodka. And that's how, to my shock and somewhat horror, it's vodka for the next seven days, basically, for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

Josh Caldwell: Hello my atypical daydreamers. Welcome to the show. My first guest today is Seth Shelden. He's general counsel and United Nations liaison to the International Campaign to Abolish Nuclear Weapons. Many years before his current work, Seth was a professor in the Baltics. One morning, he set out on a strange road trip through the winding roads of Montenegro. A journey that, remarkably, wouldn't reach its final destination until ten years later at the United Nations in New York City.

Seth Shelden: You know, I love how when you get to a certain point in your life and you've transitioned around a few careers and you've been living in different parts of the world, people who are in your life at one point in one context come back into your life in a completely different and totally unexpected context. I've had a few different careers, but today I work as the general counsel and United Nations representative at this Nobel Prize winning NGO, the International Campaign to Abolish Nuclear Weapons.

There's this one time, for example, I'm just traveling around the Balkans relatively aimlessly. By which I mean experiencing the cultures and learning things, but I'm on my own with open-ended time. At this point I'm based in the Baltics where I'm teaching at a graduate school. Another professor I know says, when you're in Kosovo you should look up this guy. He's working as a judge. I write him an email and he says, yeah, if you're in Pristina, come let's meet for lunch. So we meet for lunch. And at the end of it he says, what are you doing tomorrow? Would you like to go on a road trip with me and my friend? And I think, yeah, why not? I have no idea how long this is going to be or even where we're going really.

That night I find myself sleeping on his floor. And the next morning the other guy comes over who's a soldier. They don't know each other too well, it seems to me, but the other guy brings vodka. And that's how, to my shock and somewhat horror, it's vodka for the next seven days, basically, for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

Seth Shelden: Should perhaps have reconsidered the journey. Not my general practice. And especially during a road trip through perhaps one of the windiest-roaded countries in the world in Montenegro. We spend a lot of the week, in addition to drinking vodka, constantly turning around. And as I'm sitting in the back, they're sitting in the front telling pretty racist jokes. It gets more and more intense throughout the week because they are astounded by the fact that I'm telling them the jokes aren't funny. That doesn't make them upset. It just makes them confused. So they think, we just didn't tell the right jokes, we've got to keep telling them. And this was my experience. And we end this trip drunk, having successfully made it to our destination.

Now cut to almost ten years later, having not heard from either of these guys. I'm at this point working at this NGO. I'm in the United Nations delegates lounge. The UN headquarters in New York is layers upon layers of security. And then within the UN there are highly restricted areas, even for people who do have access. Out of the corner of my eye, I see him first just through my side vision as I'm really focusing on a conversation. The guy whose floor I slept on, who drove me through Montenegro drunk, is just approaching me as if he had seen me yesterday. As if we planned to meet up here. Just calmly walking over, ignoring the meeting I'm having, and says, hello, so calmly.

Seth Shelden: I have to stop. I'm just like, why are you here? What is happening? Well, he's running for the International Criminal Court. He is the appointee of his country. And we rekindle our friendship. This is a month-long process. He's coming back and forth to New York for the elections, and I'm going with him, becoming probably better friends with him than I was even during our week together. There were some great moments where we're reflecting on that crazy road trip from a decade ago. I say to him at one point, one of my memories of that trip was being in the back seat with you and that other guy telling pretty racist jokes throughout the trip. And he says, yes, that other guy, he was so racist. Which I thought, well, maybe it was the other guy. And maybe my memory, as all memories are, isn't totally perfect.

Josh Caldwell: Hey, it's Josh. Hope you're enjoying the podcast. And if so, are you wanting more road stories? Well, good news. I've got you covered. Consider becoming a patron. You'll have access to loads of great bonus stories that there just wasn't time for. And you'll be supporting a truly independent podcast. Find the link in the show notes and thanks. Now back to the show.

My next guest is Caitlin Krisko, a roots rock singer and songwriter. If you know anything about me, you know I love a good origin story, and this one is no exception. Today, Caitlin serves up a beautiful road story that will warm your heart and fill you with hope.

Caitlin Krisko: I don't think that I realized how much roads would be so symbolic and important throughout the course of my life. I'm originally from Michigan, a suburb outside of Detroit. And I really early on was into dance and musical theater and performing. My teachers and coaches were very supportive and really communicative to my parents that there was something pretty special going on with my love and devotion for music.

So my mom agreed to allow me to apply to audition for the Professional Performing Arts School in New York City in midtown Manhattan. That was in itself really special that my mom said, yeah, you can apply, and if you get in we'll figure it out. We applied and I sent in an audition tape. It was the early 2000s or late nineties so it had to have been a camcorder situation. And I applied and I got an audition.

There was an audition in New York City at ten in the morning on some random day. So we booked a flight to go. And that night at the airport, the flight was canceled. And I remember thinking my life was over.

Caitlin Krisko: That was it. My dreams were crushed. There goes my New York City dreams and lights. Turn off. Pull the plug. That's it, kid. That was your chance. My mom turned and looked at me. She goes, well, we better book it. And I was like, book it where? She goes, well, if the flight's canceled to New York City, it looks like I'm gonna have to drive us.

I remember as a kid thinking, whoa, I didn't even think that was an option. And that's really cool that my mom would do that. And now as an adult, around the age that she was when this happened, it's an unbelievable gift that she gave me. That was probably one of the most important road trips of my life. Because that night my mom drove us overnight through the night to New York City. And we got in at eight or nine o'clock in the morning. And I went in and I auditioned.

And I crushed it. Thirteen-year-old Caitlin served up a hot dish of musical theater. And out of I think a few thousand kids, two boys and two girls were accepted into the program, and I was one of them. Then my mom and I moved to New York City. My mom being a single mother, I think at the time she probably didn't fully know how expensive and wild New York City is, but she made it work. And she made it work for me. She worked really hard. And that road trip, driving me from Detroit to New York City just so I could have that audition and making sure I made it in time, was just one example of the many journeys she took to give me an amazing life. And that led to 500,000 miles on the road touring with my band.

Josh Caldwell: I want to thank Seth and Caitlin for sharing their experience. Be sure to check out the amazing work Seth is doing with the International Campaign to Abolish Nuclear Weapons at icanw.org. Also check out Caitlin Krisko and the Broadcast and their recent EP Blueprints. You can find all their upcoming shows at their website. Links in the show notes. This podcast is created and produced by me, Josh Caldwell. Music by Visual Aid, my side music project. General support and copywriting by Miranda Caldwell. And if you know someone who you think might enjoy this show, send them this episode. The support really helps. Thank you for listening, and I hope you come back next time.